Grateful Guitars (Part 2): 8/13/23 Benefit Concert: Alex Jordan, Zach Nugent, Gary Lambert, Danny Eisenberg + Johnny “Mojo” Flores
Welcome to Tales From the Green Room. Backstage conversations from popular music venues around the country curated by Mount Tam Media. Listen in as host Dennis Truzzillo and Mount Tam Media founder Tammy Larson dig up conversations with artists before and after shows in the exclusive confines of the green room. All right. Here we are again.
Speaker 1:Hello. And now we get to introduce the, part 2 of 3 of the Grateful Guitars podcast on Tales from the Green Room.
Speaker 2:Yes. Here we are.
Speaker 3:You're so agreeable.
Speaker 2:I have been lately.
Speaker 1:I tell you.
Speaker 2:So Enjoy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Enjoy. And that's it. Just listen and figure it out for yourself, people. So, as we teased or said in the episode 1 with Andy Logan, we did that in anticipation of attending the Grateful Guitar's benefit, and, we got ourselves embedded into the green room of sorts.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. It was. If you can always check out our website for all of these wonderful photos. But, no, these were great because they didn't have any room. There were so many musicians playing at this benefit and they were incredible, by the way, which we'll talk about and we will we talked too.
Speaker 2:But they found this room in the storage room next to the green room, which was very interesting, but no one hesitated to to come in there. It's all those boxes of
Speaker 1:No one
Speaker 3:even something. No one even blinked. Yeah. Come on in.
Speaker 2:Come on in. And we just had little table chairs. They made room for us, which thankfully they did.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Rachel Ann for, bringing people in there as well.
Speaker 3:That was which did fantastic.
Speaker 1:But, I mean, I gotta say, yeah, it was it was it was a vibe. And we were I mean, you stepped outside, and we were in the amidst all the green rooms of all these folks running around. So who we have on this episode, 1st and foremost, the music director for this benefit and our friend, Alex Jordan.
Speaker 2:Yes. Alex. Wow. And he's coming out with an album soon.
Speaker 3:He is?
Speaker 2:That's true. Announced it.
Speaker 1:There we go. She's following Instagram. Yeah. Alex, has been a good friend, but, man, he's really great friends with Andy. And he must be because hurting the cats as we discussed of all these musicians and being the musical director Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And being in charge of the back line, we grabbed him. I'm surprised we even got him for a few minutes, but we did. And, it's cool. You can kinda hear how the whole benefit's set up. And then Zach Nugent came by, we went and grabbed him.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And Zach, knew us from way back, the days between. Mhmm. And we had fun, talking to Zach about his he'd come back from the East Coast. And then standing at side stage there as an emcee to the event was Gary Lambert of Tales from the Golden Road from
Speaker 2:series radio. So many amazing stories. Gary.
Speaker 1:And he was you know, we met Gary probably 3 years ago. So, he's he was very happy to sit down with us, and we were happy to hear him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He just has such great insight.
Speaker 2:And energy and just love for this music.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Joseph is beautiful. Who else did we grab? And then, oh, let's not forget, another friend of ours from the the local scene, Danny Eisenberg. Really had fun with Danny.
Speaker 2:You're gonna love
Speaker 3:this fish. I love this.
Speaker 1:Just eat graham crackers. That's all I'm gonna say. That's that's the hint. And then as a little bonus, we could've tossed into this episode, Johnny Mojo.
Speaker 2:Oh, you said it right. No. Congratulations. Woo.
Speaker 1:We've we've also interviewed. But Johnny Mojo, who we did visit with at the, keystone revisited when we, event at Sweetwater when we interviewed Andy. So we we tossed him in there appropriately. So please enjoy this episode of, part 2 of the Grateful Guitars Tales from the Green Room episodes.
Speaker 2:Straight from the storeroom.
Speaker 1:And with that, let's start it out with Alex Jordan.
Speaker 2:You are the number 1 on our list, aren't you?
Speaker 1:This main time page list now.
Speaker 4:Oh my god.
Speaker 3:I
Speaker 1:know. You're number 1, Alex, because what the fuck? You put this thing
Speaker 2:together. Amazing.
Speaker 1:Tell us how you're well, how you're holding up and how you're able to herd all these cats.
Speaker 4:Well, the the weirdest thing for me realizing
Speaker 1:that
Speaker 4:I was asked I was asked if I would be a music director, which is quite an honor with this cast of of folks and I'm I'm I'm truly honored to to attempt to do that because leading Grateful Dead musicians is a whole another thing. But in a separate conversation, it was asking you, okay, do you wanna do you wanna do the back line? And, what that means is that Andy has his collection of instruments, and, and Jason and Nate Bittner do too. And and and my job was quickly to coordinate all of the equipment that we were bringing tonight as well as make sure that all the instruments were playable. And I said yes to those two things in separate conversations, not thinking about that it would all be
Speaker 2:Oh my god.
Speaker 4:Today. It was Right.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Oh.
Speaker 1:Well, somebody told us he got an email out last night. I think it was Zach and said I was surprised he was able to do that. Hey.
Speaker 4:You know, we we hit a point, yesterday morning, I guess, at a certain certain time of day where I was like, you know what? There's nothing left to do other than go there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So that was cool. So it was a day early.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's pretty amazing, actually.
Speaker 1:Nothing left to do but smile smile smile. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2:What are you expecting from tonight? Are you do you have like
Speaker 4:Well, there was a there was an element of it when I was putting the set list together where I didn't wanna over engineer. I wanted to, the the board, gave me a significant amount of guidance with regard to what songs they wanted to hear. But I had the majority of the input with regard to which musicians were playing with whom and and playing on which songs and kind of, what instruments they should be playing. And, we we all it was a conversation between all of us, but that was kind of it started with me and then and then went from there. But I didn't want to, tell the musicians what to do.
Speaker 4:And so the only guidance I gave everybody was was be prepared to go on long before you need to go up there. And, don't, you know, don't underplay but don't overplay either. You know, think about the fact that it's the whole long night. Yeah. And beyond that, I nothing.
Speaker 4:I just I I'm people are asking me right now because we're right right before the show here, like, is someone gonna come get me? I'm like, no. No one's gonna get you. If you're not there, someone else will play.
Speaker 1:That's right. We have power ups. Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, so so it's just the whole idea of of I mean, it's not so much about taking responsibility as much as it is about the ride Yeah. And riding the energy and and and having it be a little loose. And we used to do this at Terrapin Crossroads. Right. Uh-huh.
Speaker 4:And having it be a little intentionally loose, I think keeps us a little bit more on our toes in in a in a way that's gonna keep us fresh.
Speaker 1:And and more in tune with the vibe, with the scene, and everything.
Speaker 4:100%. The music? 100%.
Speaker 2:Are there a lot of people that have not played together?
Speaker 3:That's that's
Speaker 4:the coolest thing is most everyone has not played to get there's, you know, 2 or 3 people that have played together, but not no one has ever played in these combinations. Wow. And, I think I realized the other night we were doing an interview on on, KPFA. I think I realized that I'm the only person on the set list that has played with everybody.
Speaker 2:Oh, really? But I I
Speaker 4:I think that's true. I I haven't I haven't found evidence of otherwise. And and I don't say that because I think I'm special so much as, like, holy crap.
Speaker 3:Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's so cool. So you
Speaker 1:you got to pick the combinations though?
Speaker 5:Or For
Speaker 4:the most part. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's kinda like fantasy football. I you know, it's like Right.
Speaker 4:Right. Stu Allen describes it the all star game.
Speaker 2:The all
Speaker 1:star game.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right?
Speaker 3:It's the
Speaker 1:same idea. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. Very cool.
Speaker 1:Well, you're the right man for the job for a lot of reasons. One, because you've played with everybody, perhaps. And secondly, you you and Andy. I mean, you and Andy are
Speaker 3:a
Speaker 1:couple of gear heads together, would you say?
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah. It yeah. To a fault. Yeah. It it it that's been a fun a fun journey on this too and is putting together these we've got some real honest to goodness Grateful Dead equipment on the stage.
Speaker 4:And we have more than is on the stage. It's it's just hard to get, all this stuff stage ready. And and Andy is just so generous.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, he has a a speaker cabinet that's on stage tonight that was one of Jerry Garcia's. And it was used, quite a lot. And so to see that on the stage and I'm sitting there, of course, working on it at Andy's house a couple days ago getting it all tested and I plug everything in and I just sort of test it and move on and then I I don't even have a moment to process like, oh my gosh. This is what this is. You know?
Speaker 1:He showed us. We we did a little tour of the, the collection a couple weeks ago, and we interviewed Andy. And, obviously, you're a big part of that. And He
Speaker 4:took you to the room? He took
Speaker 1:oh, yeah. So we we actually went over there to the room in order to we were gonna interview him. We spent 3 hours in the room.
Speaker 2:Oh, we didn't get to interview.
Speaker 1:And then we ended up interviewing him later at Sweetwater a couple of days later because it was so much fun and so much information. But that that what you're talking about is that amp, think it was. Yeah. I mean, there's
Speaker 4:a few different a few different things. But we've learned there's a a a big tall tower of a speaker cabinet. There's an amplifier that, that has been around the scene for a while and many of us have had a chance to use it. And, the some sleuthing of a very sharp eyed gear fan was able to identify where it came from, and this is one of the amps that Garcia had in his stack of amps in 72, 71, 73, you know, early early 70, excuse me. I I I should say 90?
Speaker 4:No. No. No. This this particular
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:This particular amp was was one in his stack, I I guess, at Veneta and, and, Europe. I guess it would have been retired by 73. So that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And that's powering, you know, an amplifier, a a Macintosh amplifier which is powering this this speaker cabinet that Garcia used in 1990 with with JGB. And in the mid eighties, there's some some shots of him. I forget. It's a small club and I I can see the photo but it's like he's like right up against the crowd. It's a tiny little stage with this huge, unnecessarily large, you know, speaker amp or speaker cabinet and amplifier.
Speaker 4:It's like, you know.
Speaker 1:We were admiring, a photo or post a photo, I guess, that Andy and I both have. It's It's the, Balenas Bakery
Speaker 2:Greek It's the blue.
Speaker 1:It's the, 1983 Greek theater with John Giacalone.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it turns out Andy and I both have that I love
Speaker 4:that one.
Speaker 1:There's only, like, 15 of them.
Speaker 4:I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And we both have but one of the pieces of equipment,
Speaker 6:I think it's
Speaker 1:the cabinet, is in that picture.
Speaker 4:It's on stage. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's on stage. Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:So here we are.
Speaker 4:It's pretty cool. Here we are. Here we are. And and, you know, we're checking everything and standing in front of it and and, you know, certifiably loud, you know, just everything's just certifiably loud.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. Well, listen. Congratulations in advance. This is your 2 minutes of piece tonight right here in
Speaker 4:this whole storeroom. But only only 2 people are talking to me. It's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right?
Speaker 1:But we wanna thank you and congrats. We see you're gonna be out of the Terrapin Crossroads Sunshine Daydream.
Speaker 4:You're coming up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Coming up. And we'll be there as well doing our thing. Awesome. Maybe we'll talk to you for the 3rd time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That'd be great. We're just gonna keep following you. We're gonna archive you and we'll we'll Oh my gosh. Well,
Speaker 4:thank thanks for thanks for being here. Thanks for what you guys do the community. Yeah. And, we really appreciate you coming out tonight.
Speaker 1:You got it, buddy. Alright.
Speaker 2:Have fun.
Speaker 1:Sorry. Gotta get back to work. Alright. Here I go. Alright.
Speaker 1:Right on. So after that was great from Alex. So after, Alex, ran to go do his thing, we did catch up with Zach Nugent in in an adjoining storeroom slash, slash, green room. And he came in and had this to say, listen to, our visit with Zac Nugent.
Speaker 6:Hello, Zac. Hey, guys. Welcome. Thanks so much
Speaker 1:for having
Speaker 6:me.
Speaker 1:So let's see. You're on. Yeah. We are on.
Speaker 3:Right on.
Speaker 1:So I saw you, I think it was, like, 2 weeks ago, at the Giants game. Yeah. It's not even.
Speaker 6:I feel like it was, like, 2 months ago, but I in reality, it was, like, 10 days ago.
Speaker 1:It was 10 days?
Speaker 6:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Because I know since then, you've gone back to back east.
Speaker 6:Yep. I was back east. I played shows,
Speaker 3:I don't know where
Speaker 6:I was last oh, I was in, New Hampshire and Connecticut last weekend. And then 2 days ago, I was in Philadelphia. And last night, I was in Brunswick, Maine. And now we're here.
Speaker 1:And Wow. Here, ladies and gentlemen, is at the Great American Music Hall
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:San Francisco, California, not close to the state of Maine.
Speaker 5:Not close.
Speaker 1:Not close at all.
Speaker 6:Not even kinda. I guess I could have gone to, like, LA and gone a little further.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But But that's bad. You looked, refreshed.
Speaker 6:I feel good. Yeah. I got spoiled today. I got to go to the to the hotel before coming here Alright. Which is unusual.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, I I may I wanna ask you something before we get into so we're at the, everybody knows by now. By the time they hear this, we're at Andy Logan's Grateful Guitars Benefit. We're gonna talk about the guitars. We're gonna talk about Andy.
Speaker 1:But, it just reminded me, you got to sing the national anthem at the San Francisco Giants game. Crazy.
Speaker 6:Wow. I know. Why?
Speaker 2:I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I
Speaker 2:Is that in the notes?
Speaker 3:I sing
Speaker 6:a lot with my band, you know, like just by default, but I don't think of myself as, like, a singer. Correct. You know, I think I'm I'm feeling like I'm a guitar player and so I never thought I'd be singing national anthem in a
Speaker 2:How did that come about?
Speaker 6:Sunshine, got asked to do it, and, she and I have been talking about doing it for years. We almost did at a Giants game in, like, 2018 or something, and something fell through. I had to head back home, or for some reason, we didn't do it. And so we've joked about it or, you know, semi joked about it since and she said, hey, we're doing I'm doing the anthem. So we're doing the anthem.
Speaker 6:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:So cool. That's so cool. Well, you're being modest about your voice because you have a
Speaker 2:Yeah. I've heard you sing.
Speaker 7:You're a bad
Speaker 1:bad ass guitar player. Thank you.
Speaker 6:It's funny. I get the voice thing all the time but I grew up being a guitarist and I I had to sing by default, you know. So, I get I get voice compliments a lot, but, I would say, like, hey. What about my guitar playing? You know?
Speaker 6:It's funny the way that works out.
Speaker 1:Well, it's okay. It's okay.
Speaker 3:It's okay. No. I'm fine. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Worst things have happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I saw Bob Weir, Vince Wilnick, and Jerry Garcia sing the national anthem. Mhmm. Not at that same spot.
Speaker 6:Obviously, it
Speaker 1:was at Candlestick in 1993. So cool. And I thought, man, how cool is this that Zach is doing?
Speaker 5:Wild, man. Man. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You guys ever seen a national anthem at any event?
Speaker 6:No. I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Badass. That's
Speaker 3:crazy. No.
Speaker 2:I mean, right? I mean, that that that is, like, that's super cool. I don't think it's a funny fact, you know, whatever you do in your life. Yeah. Now that that's gonna be
Speaker 1:the fun part.
Speaker 6:Social media post. I was
Speaker 3:supposed to picture
Speaker 6:up with a a check mark emoji.
Speaker 1:Once again, nothing about your guitar playing. Right. But let's let's talk about that because, Andy Logan has been so generous with, his guitars. When when did you meet Andy, and how did you know who he was when he got introduced to him?
Speaker 6:No. It's funny, you know, I get, a lot of messages in my social media and, you know, I I'm in contact with a lot of people. It's just, you know, being a musician is a super social lifestyle. And so Sure. It's hard to get back to everybody and sometimes, you know, I I feel bad about it, but I I am not able to get back to all the messages I get and, Andy's message sat in my inbox for a while and I think I saw it on a flight or something and meant to get back and never did and then I realized 6 months later, like, oh, this guy's trying to like hang out and and talk guitars or whatever.
Speaker 6:And, so I hit him back, and, I was playing with JGB at the San Rafael JCC.
Speaker 2:Oh, uh-huh.
Speaker 6:And, Andy was like, I wanna come out and say, hey. Whatever. Would that be cool? And I said, yeah. Of course.
Speaker 6:And I didn't really know, what he had or did or who he was and, what kind of person he was. And I said, yeah. Sure. And he said, if you don't mind, I'd love to bring a couple couple of guitars. I have a couple of cool guitars that would be, sweet to have at your gig.
Speaker 6:And I said, sure. And so he brought the guitar I'm playing tonight, which is, a cripe Saturn, which was built for Jerry. Jerry passed away before he was able to receive it. But Yeah. It's an incredible guitar.
Speaker 6:And Andy just showed up at my gig and was the sweetest guy ever. He said, here's this crazy guitar. He brought some pedals for me to play. It was just like instant family, which I'm sure our going
Speaker 3:experiences would
Speaker 2:be good. True. Yeah.
Speaker 1:He's That that happens
Speaker 2:Very consistent in that manner.
Speaker 5:Right? Unbelievable.
Speaker 6:Yeah. And that was, 2017, I guess.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Maybe, like, spring of 2017 and we were off to the races. Wow. Talk talk every week. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Once that starts so it sat in your inbox for months. That's amazing.
Speaker 6:Maybe even a year.
Speaker 3:A year. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6:And I get a lot of messages. People like, hey, I'd love to jam, you know, and so, like, it's it's easy to pass over this stuff. I try to get back to everybody but, yeah, Andy sat there for a while on my inbox.
Speaker 1:That is so cool. So what what was it like playing that guitar that day?
Speaker 6:Amazing. I hadn't played any of Jerry's guitars yet. That was the first first Garcia guitar I played and, you know, I guess it technically it wasn't played by Jerry, but it was
Speaker 5:intended for
Speaker 6:him and Yeah. Knowing the guitar, I know that it would have seen some serious stage time with him because it's For sure.
Speaker 3:One of
Speaker 6:the most special guitars I've ever played. And right away, it was like being home on that instrument. I'm so excited I'm playing it tonight because
Speaker 5:they sort of just told us,
Speaker 6:you know, yesterday, here's what tunes you're playing and here's which guitars you're playing. And
Speaker 2:Just last night?
Speaker 6:Yeah. Oh
Speaker 1:my gosh.
Speaker 6:And so,
Speaker 1:I don't know how I I
Speaker 3:don't know.
Speaker 1:Jordan and then Dude,
Speaker 6:I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to get that email out by last night, I don't think. No. Yeah. Crazy. He's he's rocking it.
Speaker 1:So you're playing that again tonight then? So we're bringing it full circle?
Speaker 6:That tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Full circle.
Speaker 1:Any other guitars of his you played?
Speaker 6:Jerry's?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, Andy's slash Jerry's. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I played Alligator a whole bunch.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 6:I've played the the d 28, which is, that's such a special guitar in its own right. It's a it's a pre war Martin d 28, which is arguably the most coveted acoustic guitar in the world. And it's funny. It's it's his is a December of 1943, which is like
Speaker 2:1943.
Speaker 6:Yeah. And so it just made the prewar cutoff by, like, days.
Speaker 1:Okay. You know? Wait. Wait. So that that's the am I not am I mistaken or not?
Speaker 1:That that's the car that the keytar that, Jerry recorded ripple on. Absolutely. That's the one. Wow. I had that Have
Speaker 2:you played ripple?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yep. You know, it's this guitar. Yeah.
Speaker 6:It's, it's hard to tell. Like, this there's only so many pictures and so much documentation, but, yeah, I think that guitar probably recorded all of Working Man's Dead and American Beauty. It was on Festival Express, Peter Rowan saw it and played it and he said, oh, this is the guitar I played in Old In The Way, and, like things just keep popping up with that guitar.
Speaker 1:So how how about this one? Is this true? I think I read somewhere the first song you ever learned to play in guitar was?
Speaker 6:Ripple. Wow.
Speaker 2:That's so crazy. I just I got chills.
Speaker 3:I always get
Speaker 2:chills during these. I usually have long sleeves on, so you can't see my chills popping up.
Speaker 6:Well, until you get to, even when you get to the chorus on ripple, even still, it's such a simple song. Such that's so Jerry
Speaker 5:and
Speaker 6:so Grateful Dead too that Yeah. Take the 3 g c and d for the verse, and those are like the 3 first chords you learn on guitar. Anyone who's ever picked up a guitar plays g c and d. And for Jerry to write something like ripple out of such simple chords
Speaker 2:That's so cool.
Speaker 6:You know, it's like, what? Timeless. Timeless. Timeless.
Speaker 1:And so do you does it feel different to play it on that guitar than others?
Speaker 6:Yeah. Because, you know, each guitar is is so unique and has such a personality. So when you play that guitar, when you play that that intro to ripple, it sounds like American Beauty. You know? Wow.
Speaker 6:It's amazing. Right?
Speaker 1:I mean Yep. It has to.
Speaker 2:This is is this a segue into tones that we we always hear about tones. Right? All these guitars that keeps coming up over and over and over. Yeah.
Speaker 6:It's funny too. Jerry, I've played, I think, like, 14 or 15 of his guitars at this point, and half of them are custom and half of them are, production guitars like the Martin d 28 was just, you know, wasn't built for Jerry, it's just a Martin. And,
Speaker 5:you know, a lot
Speaker 6:of guitars came Jerry's way. I think backstage every night people were handing them a guitar they built or a guitar they had, wanted whatever. And his you know, obviously, there's mojo left in these guitars from Jerry and the experiences these guitars have had and the things they've done. But I think Jerry also just knew how and when to pick the right guitar. He knew when one was a keeper.
Speaker 6:Because I've played other prewar Martins and they're really cool, But this one, like, Jerry knew when one sparkled and was like, I'm keeping this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know?
Speaker 1:And then and then he moved on. You know? He go on to the next one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. No. No. No.
Speaker 5:I was
Speaker 2:just gonna say it because I I don't know if we'll get this in or not. But have you had that experience playing any of the guitars, but maybe in particular, alligator? Because we've heard this happen many times. Have have you had the experience where the guitar maybe at some point kind of plays itself
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 6:Yep. Yep. And, you know, alligator is modified. It is super unique, but not it's not a complete Frankenstein. You know, at the end of the day, it is still still kind of just a Fender Strat, with some some quirks and some weird stuff, but, I've played a bunch of vintage Strats too, and none of them do what that
Speaker 5:guitar does.
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 1:Here's your answer to you.
Speaker 2:I know. I love it. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:So when did you get your I know you were, after that, that Tiger guitar, many years ago. Did you get it? Which oh, I did.
Speaker 6:Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Yep. I got that. Wild. That started the whole thing, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Tell us about that.
Speaker 6:I had this guitar that, was made by a fellow, and I got it, like, right after high school. I saved up, like, years years of mowing lawns and my parents chipped in a little, and I got this custom guitar that wasn't great. But it was cool and it was special and no one else had anything like it at that time, like, in my circle, you know, and
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 6:had the cool crazy guitar. And, I thought that was it. I thought that was like my guitar or whatever. And it it's not a great guitar. I still have it.
Speaker 6:But at the time it was amazing and, I never dreamed of having something even that cool. But then I started playing other ones and dipping into, like, other makers and being like, oh, I don't have the coolest guitar. Yeah. Or there are other really cool guitars. I love better have better construction, better better details, whatever.
Speaker 6:And so that Tiger was, you know, at that at that time, the closest I could get to the real deal. And, that was a great guitar. That was a guitar I had when I I joined JGB, and that got me through the 1st few years, just solely that guitar.
Speaker 1:Damn. How long how long did you play with JGB?
Speaker 6:About three and a half years.
Speaker 1:Oh, what an experience. Yeah. Wild. Is that how you got to know Sunshine? Or Yeah.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Yep. Talk about unread messages. Sunshine left my my message to her on, in her inbox for about 3 years.
Speaker 2:Really? Yeah.
Speaker 6:We still be joking about it every day.
Speaker 1:No kidding.
Speaker 6:I was playing a show in, like, at the cap in Garcia's at the cap in Port Chester, New York. And Sunshine was playing around the corner, and I messaged her and said, hey. My band's here. If you wanna come by and whatever, hang out and maybe sing or whatever, I would love to meet you and whatever, and, never heard back. And so now sometimes she'll text me.
Speaker 6:We talk. Sunshine and I are brother and sister, we talk every day. And, you know, sometimes I'll leave her unanswered for a few hours just for
Speaker 1:the hell of it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6:And she knows what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's so great. And well, let there be a lesson there. Just, you know, persistence and don't delete your emails. Totally.
Speaker 1:It's true. It's true.
Speaker 6:But, yeah, we met in JGB and, I remember I walked into this we had never met before JGB and so I walked into Melvin's studio here in San Francisco, and we hugged, and that was it. Then that's it. Off to the races. Now we're family for life.
Speaker 1:And here we are tonight. Well, let me say something about Sunshine. She's has a lot to do with the fact that we're sitting here tonight with the the tales from the green room podcast, which was preceded by the women are smarter Mhmm. Which was, witnessed the
Speaker 5:the inaugural Yeah.
Speaker 2:You were his first yeah. Yeah. This is the first one. Our first interview.
Speaker 6:Oh, cool. That was the very first one.
Speaker 2:That was the
Speaker 1:very first one.
Speaker 2:I kept looking at you and you had this look on your face like, what do you guys do know that?
Speaker 6:I remember that was a dusty, hot festival, and I didn't know that area existed where you guys were.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 6:Right. I kept looking for some place to go and hang out. And then, like, there it was in the shade
Speaker 5:with, like, cool people and
Speaker 6:there was, like, big comfy, like, little upholstered chair.
Speaker 1:It was very nice. And I was like, do your thing.
Speaker 6:See you later. I'll be melting into this chair. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I see that.
Speaker 1:What I also remember about that, though, was Sunshine we were doing the women are smarter, and Sunshine and I had talked about this idea of getting, you know, women out there, etcetera. So this is was one of the the, I don't know, the genesis of it had to do with some conversations I had with her. And then at that festival, she was in fact actively trying to get the women at the festival together. Yeah. And she did that with you being the, the token male.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It was badass. Midlife I
Speaker 2:was blown away by your playing. I was like Oh, thanks so much. Yeah. We walked up and I was like, who what the heck is that? Oh, thanks.
Speaker 1:Anybody wants to find that on YouTube, the moonlight, midnight? Yeah.
Speaker 6:Is that out there? Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it is.
Speaker 2:I gotta watch that. I show that to people all the time.
Speaker 1:And it's a a bevy of women, female players I love that.
Speaker 5:I love
Speaker 6:that she's doing that.
Speaker 1:Zach. Yeah. There were hold to
Speaker 2:those of people crying because they just won't try. Try to understand.
Speaker 1:But the book I read, Well, right on, man. What do you expect, to feel tonight when playing that thing?
Speaker 6:The whole thing is I've never been in this room before. You know, I've always wanted to play here and, and same thing as, like, the Jerry guitars. For whatever reason, there's something special about A Room the Dead has played in, you know, especially one this size. Yeah. I think capacity now is 650.
Speaker 6:I don't know what it was back in the day, but I've heard that there were only 300 people at the Show. Unbelievable. Only.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it's gonna be like with multiple people playing these guitars
Speaker 6:at the same time.
Speaker 2:There's gonna be a lot
Speaker 4:of music.
Speaker 1:To find it.
Speaker 6:But between Alex and Andy, it's gonna be amazing. I can't wait to play these guitars on this stage with these people.
Speaker 2:And so you're coming back, though. Though? Did we talk about this? I don't think we've talked about this on Yeah.
Speaker 6:Yeah. My band's coming back almost exactly in 3 months. We'll be here Sunday, November 12th.
Speaker 2:Okay. Got that, everyone?
Speaker 6:Yep. Okay. Yep. I can't wait to
Speaker 1:maybe we can get them down here and, do a little bit. Let's do it.
Speaker 3:Let's play
Speaker 2:on it. Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'd love that. Yeah. Right on, Zach. I can't wait to,
Speaker 2:let's see
Speaker 1:you tonight. You too.
Speaker 2:You look so refreshed. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel good. More refreshed
Speaker 2:than we are.
Speaker 1:I feel
Speaker 2:good. We live here.
Speaker 3:Thank you, guys.
Speaker 1:Right on.
Speaker 2:Cheers. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 1:So after roaming after speaking with Zach, we roamed around the, Great American a bit, trying to enjoy some of the show ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was a wonderful show. Oh
Speaker 4:my gosh.
Speaker 1:Which was not easy to do doing this at the same time, but it was super fun. And, there at Side Stage, as we mentioned in the beginning, was Gary Lambert of Tales from the Golden Road and Sirius Radio. And, he was trying to keep the attention of the crowd. And in the midst of all that, we grabbed him and brought him down to the storeroom. So let's hear from Gary Lambert.
Speaker 3:Right. Right.
Speaker 5:I'm sorry to stage. I
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:You're trying to keep the attention of all these people, which is not easy. Right?
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah. No. Talk talking talking during a show is a little bit challenging. That's okay. You know?
Speaker 5:It's getting across to the people who who are listening. And, it's you know, just being here serving a cause like this is it's such a great feeling. And the the fact that the people who are here have already supported Grateful Guitar. And if they wanna throw in some more, they get to do that. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And, you know, it's it's just indicative of this community. You know, how how generous they are and and how supportive they are of this tradition and and carrying it on, carrying it forward. We're all part of that.
Speaker 1:We are. And what Andy said tonight on stage was, the people behind me, which was his board Yeah. People in front of me, which was the audience Right. It's all necessary. It's it's not just him, obviously.
Speaker 1:But I I I have to tell you, I felt so good for him. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:So warm in my heart Yeah. When I saw Andy up on that stage tonight Yeah. Doing this. Didn't you?
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, Andy is someone with just this really singular vision. I mean, you know, we've all, there are a lot of us who have geeked out on these guitars for years, you know, their original incarnation in the hands of the guys who first played them. And, you know, a lot of us have studied up on the whole history of Alembic and all that. But, you know, usually, that stuff gets consigned to history.
Speaker 5:It winds up in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or something like this. Keeping these instruments alive
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And keeping the music alive in the hands of of new generation of musicians is
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:An amazing vision that that Andy has been carrying through. And I I think it's a
Speaker 2:Well, I wanted to ask you about that because you've been doing this for so long. And
Speaker 5:So long.
Speaker 2:I mean, it'll be we've been talking a lot about, like, this new generation.
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So what are you feeling? What how how do you feel about that? And do you I mean, obviously, it's real. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 5:It's it's incredibly gratifying. Yeah. You know? And I always knew this music had a real durability to it and and, inability to speak across generational lines. It sort of exceeded my wildest dreams for it.
Speaker 5:You know? And kind of, you know, it's kind of vindicated all of us who who love the Grateful Dead when no one thought the Grateful Dead was him. Wait a minute.
Speaker 1:I said that to me. I said I used to I didn't I didn't say vindicated, but that's what I was thinking. And and I didn't say I was hiding the fact that I was a deadhead, but I didn't broadcast it all the time in my professional career, you know, as an attorney.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I just was, and even people would say you're hanging out with those people. And, man, vindicated. Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 5:What what people would often say to me, you know, I I I was a deadhead without having a lot of the exterior. I mean, I have really long hair when I was first into this stuff. And then, you know, around the mid seventies, I just said, this hair is cumbersome and hot. And and I cut it off, and I started going to shows, like, you know, sort of and and people say to me Incognito? They they say they say, you don't look like a deadhead, and I'd I'd say, I'm in covert operations.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know? Because yeah. And I like that. I like I like the fact that you can defy stereotypes over Right. Of who we are and what we are.
Speaker 5:And, also, I have such a wide diversity of musical tastes, and that's one of the reasons I love the Grateful Dead because they came from such a wide diversity of influences. Yeah. You know? They I once said when I first got into them, which was first saw them in 68 then really went off the deep end in 1969.
Speaker 1:8 was
Speaker 2:I was gonna ask you. That was my next question.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My first show, I saw them by accident in Central Park for free. I didn't know they were playing that day, but I I I was there to see Jefferson Airplane.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And it turned out to be the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, then Jefferson Airplane, then the Grateful Dead, which is about as happy a sensory overload as I could ever imagine having. And then in 69, like, I was already into things like jug band music, and I was into things like blues, and I was into jazz and sort of avant garde 20th century music. And I start going to see the Grateful Dead regularly, and I say, they're playing all the music I love all at once. Yeah. All at once.
Speaker 5:Sometimes in the course of the same song. You know? And and and that was startling to me and so unlike anything that preceded in rock music.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know? There there were bands that played psychedelically. There were bands that that jammed, but the dead just came from so many different places, and they synthesized so much into something that sounded like no one else but themselves.
Speaker 1:Well, as it said on the side of Winterland. Right? Yeah. Yeah. They're not the best at what they do.
Speaker 1:They're they're the only ones that do what they do.
Speaker 5:Absolutely singular. And and, you know, they just they just kept getting better and better and honing their craft and bringing in more influences. You know, the country still I mean, that came out of nowhere. Right. In 1969, you would not expect Jerry Garcia to be playing pedal steel guitar on a George Jones song.
Speaker 5:You know? But there it was.
Speaker 1:As it is in nature's plan, no season gets the upper hand. Oh, I tried to bear this back in mind.
Speaker 5:And that that was starting the steps that led them to Working Man's Dead and American Beauty because they started crafting beautiful songs of their own. So, yeah, they they they continued to have the ability to surprise, which is not that common among rock bands that last that long. No.
Speaker 1:A lot
Speaker 5:of rock bands figure out what their shtick is. They get good at it, and they repeat it for, like, the course of a long career. Yeah. And the Grateful Dead, you know, didn't wanna bore each other
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or us. Exactly. Or us.
Speaker 2:The, so I was listening to the interview. We we I was streaming it. I wasn't at that particular show. I was streaming it when you were interviewing John Mayer during the break. Right?
Speaker 2:And that whole story that he he told you know which one I'm talking about, how he just it's like all of a sudden, it was just like, oh my god. You know? It just it it hit him and, you know, where he wasn't really in charge of of playing any longer because he's such a controlled player. Right? And that's just how that whole magic happened.
Speaker 5:Right. In the interview we we did with Oteil also during during the halftime shows, he told us about completely forgetting what song they were playing. You know? I mean Wow. It and it was here comes sunshine.
Speaker 5:I remember this. It was it was kinda late in the tour, and there was a here comes sunshine. And somehow, they took it into this, like, double time gospel feel. And, you know, and Jeff Cometti could really play that kind of stuff and the way the kind of grooves Jay played, and then and OTL just, like, totally went with it. But then OTL said, wait a minute.
Speaker 5:What song is this? And and and somehow and and this is, like, the genius Jeff of Jeff Cometti. Jeff like, they all sort of looked to Jeff, and Jeff took it from that double time thing seamlessly back into Here Comes Sunshine. Wow. And it was as though they had practiced it a 1000000 times and Yeah.
Speaker 5:But it it all happened in the moment. And so many things on this last tour
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Were that way. Of course, the ridiculous big river dark star
Speaker 2:mash up
Speaker 1:mash up. Oh my.
Speaker 5:And that that was decided basically during drums when when the when the guitar players and keyboard players were off stage during drums. Yeah. Weir just said, alright. We're gonna we're gonna instead of going into part 2 of the other one after after drums, we'll start playing big river. And they said, okay.
Speaker 5:We we haven't played that. You know? Like, I don't know if they had played it on the tour yet or if they hadn't played it in weeks or what. And they went into it, and then they start playing the the melody of dark star over. And then 2 nights later, Bobby actually sang dark star over the
Speaker 1:In the middle of it. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah. And and that's you know? Right. I can't imagine even the original Grateful Dead having pulled that off. You know, there there was something about the way this band was was It was taking out
Speaker 1:from this tour. When I was, younger so I my first Dead show was also with, Jefferson Starship and the Dead at Long Gate Park.
Speaker 5:Oh, 7075. Yeah. 75.
Speaker 1:Well, probably
Speaker 2:you guys all know exactly what
Speaker 3:it is.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Well, I mean, everybody knows
Speaker 1:that one.
Speaker 2:We're gonna throw
Speaker 1:it out at them. But yeah. And it was Jefferson Starship. And it was billed as, there are all kinds of fake, billings for what what it was. Right.
Speaker 1:But by the time I went I knew what it I mean, someone said this is what it is. KSAN, the the
Speaker 3:Right. Right.
Speaker 1:Radio station was putting out. And so that's interesting. Starship, then mine was 7 years later.
Speaker 5:Yeah. But they built well, every show the dead played that year was not billed as the Grateful Dead. Right? They played they played 4 shows total in 1975. The, Keyesars Stadium
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:The benefit Yeah.
Speaker 1:Snack Sunday.
Speaker 5:Snack Sunday for the school's school art programs and and sports programs, and they were billed as Jerry Garcia in France.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 5:And then they did the, Bob Fried Memorial Boogie at Winterland, a benefit for the family of the poster artist who had passed away, and that was Jerry Garcia in France. They actually said Jerry Garcia in France, Kingfish, Bob Weir and Kingfish, and Keith and Donna. Yeah. You know? And then it went out of all being the whole band, and then and then, yeah, the Golden Gate Park thing, they called it Jerry Garcia in France until
Speaker 1:I feel like there was something about the Monkees reunion came out. You ever heard that story?
Speaker 5:I hadn't
Speaker 1:heard that one. The Monkees reunion. Yeah. I feel like that.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna
Speaker 1:go I'm gonna go look that one up because that just popped into my head. Wow. But, but I used to find myself, maybe you did too, Gary, explaining the band and and couple of things, like why I like them, some of the things you said with I I would explain to friends. You know, the the fact is we all know you get it someday Yeah.
Speaker 5:Or you don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think of my mother, god bless you, you, Melba Strzullo.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Still
Speaker 1:alive. 93 years old. Loves Ramble on Rose.
Speaker 3:Love
Speaker 1:it. Right. But, at the time, we would go to dead shows between Christmas and New Year's at Winterland. After I saw that 70 5, that's what I did. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Christmas and New Year's 5 nights, and my mom would say, why are you going every 5 nearly all 5 nights? I said, because they do not play the same song once. And if they do, it's gonna be completely different. Yeah. And that's what you were just talking.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And
Speaker 5:that's that is also pretty unique in the history of the music.
Speaker 6:You know what
Speaker 3:I mean? Right.
Speaker 5:Most most touring bands, they have very, very homogenous set list from night to night. And within the context of the set list, they play the songs very similarly to the way they do
Speaker 2:every night.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, this is, this was one of a kind, and, and I'm so happy there are so many bands now emulating that model.
Speaker 2:Do you have any favorites?
Speaker 5:Well, most of the most of my favorite music these days falls more in the jazz Uh-huh. End of things.
Speaker 1:And, I
Speaker 5:mean, I I like a lot of the jam bands
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:But I haven't found the one that captures my heart the way the Grateful Dead did. I I admire them, and I I like Right. Yeah. And they also they relate to their fans in similar ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So that's more of a respect thing. I have I have pretty weird musical tastes in general and and and, yeah, determinately weird.
Speaker 1:Being a deadhead all these years.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. So so so I I go for, you know, where most of the jam bands leave off in terms of weirdness, that's where I
Speaker 2:guess I start. Coming in.
Speaker 5:So so I, yeah, I live in New York, and and there's an incredibly vibrant improvisational music scene in New York. So and a lot of people in it are friends of mine. Right. And it's similar to it reminds me of the Bay Area scene in the sixties Yeah. Not in terms of the style of the music that they're playing, but in the way there is all this nurturing Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know, bands supporting each other and showing up and playing on each other's gigs. Nice. And when bands have a night off, they go and see their friends play and support them. And, you know, I think maybe people on the West Coast have a a notion of New York as a very cutthroat scene, but that's not been my experience.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's
Speaker 1:very cool.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's Have you heard Neighbor, by any chance, if you're that group?
Speaker 5:I have not heard. I've I've seen the name. I have not heard them yet, but I but I I'm always eager to check out new stuff. And I like some of the younger jam bands, you know, I I'm I'm I keep giving them a chance. I like Goose.
Speaker 5:I like what I've heard of Goose. You know? And, you know, I'll I'll keep
Speaker 2:Jerry's middle finger?
Speaker 5:Jerry's middle finger. I saw them at Skull and Roses, and I enjoyed them a lot. So, yeah, there's it's just great that there is a model Yeah. That these people are working from. You know?
Speaker 5:And I just I'm very optimistic about the musical future. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Hey. How could you not be? Like, tonight, how could you not be? I mean, I was looking up we just went upstairs to, check out what's going on from up there, and the scene was just amazing.
Speaker 1:I know. Yeah. The scene was amazing. The music was amazing.
Speaker 2:Always amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But I don't know. Tonight, it felt. So let's let's talk about what it's like as you as a fan,
Speaker 5:these Yeah.
Speaker 1:Gary, because we're all fans here. When we see Alligator on stage
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Played by John Kaye, like, just now, it's going on as we speak, actually. Yeah. And, you know, the the the Martin, being played. I mean, all of that stuff. I mean, how does it fit?
Speaker 1:Because I asked the artist, how do you and they all say, I honestly It's not a ball. Magic. Yeah. It takes over. I don't know that I'm but how do you feel when you I mean, just to see this tonight with all of it coming together.
Speaker 5:It's it's incredible. It's it's it's so it's moving. It's heartwarming. And, you know, it the depth of respect that the younger musicians have for this tradition and the tradition that Rick Turner and Doug Irwin and those people established. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Because if if you look at the early history of of the San Francisco bands, they were playing mostly stock, you know, Fenders right off the assembly line or Gibson's right off the assembly line, and then they started having people modify them. You know, Rick Turner started out modifying some of Jerry's guitars, and then Rick Turner started building guitars. And then Rick Turner started building some of the most mind blowing guitars ever built, and Doug came out of that culture too. So, yeah, the the respect for that tradition I mentioned Stradivarius when I was up, you know, making the introduction, and that's really resonant to me because, you know, there's always been a tradition in classical music of instruments being passed on. These are instruments going back to the 1600.
Speaker 5:Really? And, the the young I guess he's not so young anymore, but one of the present generation of virtuoso violinist, Joshua Bell
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:Has a a Stradivarius that was given to him by the great Isaac Stern, who was a, you know, a Yeah. Great violinist of a previous generation. And Joshua Bell says, you know, I'm not really a mystically inclined person, but when I play that instrument, I feel the weight of its history.
Speaker 2:Did you know that classical
Speaker 1:No. But I just I'm just blown away because this is it's it crosses, genres. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For
Speaker 5:sure. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You know? And and, of course, you know, there are so many revered old, you know, Martin flat Flat Tops, you know, that came out of the bluegrass world and all that.
Speaker 5:So it respect for the instruments is like is is an extension of respect for the music itself. Yeah. I think so. So, yeah. It's it's it's great to see that and and and what Andy and and Jason and the gang are doing.
Speaker 5:It's just it's it's beautiful and, you know, just it means so much. I mean, I loved when Jerry was just playing those stock instruments. I mean, one of my all time favorite Jerry sounds was just a Gibson SG Yeah. Plugged into a Fender twin, you know, without a lot of gizmos, and he just, you know, that's the stuff that's on Live Dead.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And, you know Yeah. You can't beat that for me. I mean, I love all the Erwin's and all that stuff, but there's something because it was the period that I was really getting into music, when I hear that stuff, it goes, like, straight up my
Speaker 2:spine. Oh my god. Do you play?
Speaker 5:I do play. I've been I've been playing I've been playing for a very long time. I've been kinda keeping it, on a back burner as far as a profession because I got involved in a whole lot of other stuff in the music business. I play mostly for pleasure, but I'm I'm kinda half at a hankering to get out and and and and gig some more. And I play a very simple stock stock guitar.
Speaker 2:Ask you. What are you playing on?
Speaker 5:I've got I've got a g and l sort of, g and l was Leo Fender's last company before before he passed.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:And he sort of, you know, it's sort of like a Fender's Telecaster, but with a a few other twists too. It's not quite as twangy. The Telecaster's got some really nice jazzy tones that I especially appreciate. So I play those, and I have a beautiful acoustic guitar by a Irish luthier named George Loudon. Nice.
Speaker 5:And, yeah, you know, it's you pick up a beautifully made instrument, and it inspires you to play better. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. But beyond that, you must feel quite fortunate to have your role, as you do with the Grateful Dead right now. No. You
Speaker 5:know, it's just it blows my mind. I mean and the fact that it keeps on going I mean, you know, I I I worked directly for the band for a bunch of years. I worked for Bill Graham before I worked for the dead, and that was another dream gig.
Speaker 1:You know?
Speaker 5:Because the greatest education you could ever get in the music business
Speaker 3:is working
Speaker 5:for Bill. Had to be. And then immediately went from that to working for the dead. Wow. And, you know, then 1995 came, and I said, okay.
Speaker 5:Well, that was What
Speaker 1:am I gonna
Speaker 5:do? That was a nice life. You know?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:Now I have to get a grown up job. But but, actually, when we said goodbye to Jerry in Golden Gate Park, which was this date, actually, in 1995, August 13th.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's why that that's why this concert is so special. Yeah.
Speaker 5:He did. 13. Right. Well yeah. Well, the first this this is based on August 13, 1975 when they when the dead played here.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. Right.
Speaker 5:Then Jerry died on 9th. Right. There were supposed to be a 20th anniversary Blues for Allah show that I was involved in on on 13th, but it was postponed because Jerry died and pushed back to November. But they had the memorial for Jerry in Golden Gate Park. Right.
Speaker 5:And, you know, each of the band members spoke. They didn't play.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:They they just spoke. And then there was this, like, little processional at the end with drums and stuff. And I walked up to Bobby who I, at that point, already known for, you know, 20 plus years.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Jeez. And I
Speaker 5:gave him a hug, and I said, man, wherever wherever this goes from here, you know, I just wanna say thank you. Mhmm. And Bobby said, oh, hell. We're just getting started. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I said, it was amazing to me that he could say that at this moment At that day. At this at this big goodbye, and he has proven so correct. Right. And that's that's that's sort of my that's my mantra. All hell were just getting started.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And with each ending, I felt like, fare thee well in
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 5:In 2015. It was like I had this absolute and we didn't even know about Dent Company happening yet Not at all. So much. I knew there was something in the works. But, well, Phil, yet Not
Speaker 3:at all.
Speaker 5:So much. I knew there was something in the works. But, well, Phil said a great thing at at, Fairly Willy. He said he said this isn't an ending. It's a crossroads.
Speaker 2:That's Oh.
Speaker 5:You know? And then, you know, and and Perfectly put. Yeah. So this this music was so deeply ingrained in us by that point that Yeah. Fairly well was not like a big traumatic ending for me.
Speaker 5:It was like, okay. Phil wants to do this with his wife, and the other guys wanna stay on the road, and this makes perfect sense. Like, every makes
Speaker 1:sense.
Speaker 5:Everyone's doing exactly what they
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:They should be doing
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 5:Rather than what the audience might dictate for them to do because we love to have this band go out on tour every few years. And and the end of the debt and company touring doesn't mean anything specifically ending. It means it's reshaping.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know? And and it may happen in more intimate surroundings, which is fine with me. You know? I mean, there is a thrill about seeing this music played in front of a stadium full of people, but also there are conversations the band can have that are less forceful and less loud and more subtle and more full of nuance. Right.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 5:Bobby's doing that already with Wolf Pros and and the Wolf Packs. So, and I saw Till a few weeks ago. He he was tremendous. You you know him.
Speaker 2:Great person. We have an interview.
Speaker 5:The the most beautiful You listen to him. I I I I can't wait. People are gonna be blown away by his solo album. Really? Yeah.
Speaker 5:He he made an album of all Garcia Hunter ballads. No way. Just the ballads. Are you kidding me? Yeah.
Speaker 1:He made went to Iceland.
Speaker 5:He went
Speaker 1:to Iceland. With Jason Crosby.
Speaker 2:What he was
Speaker 3:doing there.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Jason Crosby, a bunch of great musicians, and, you know, Achill sings those ballads so beautifully. Oh, you
Speaker 2:can't wait.
Speaker 5:So it's it's really good.
Speaker 1:And I
Speaker 5:can't wait. Coming out? Well, it's I know. I I think in September.
Speaker 6:I think
Speaker 5:it's almost ready. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we we interviewed Jason right after he came back from that
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Sweetwater.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, I asked him that question. He goes, I don't know, but let me know. Yeah. Because, it was quite an experience.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Hotel said it was an amazingly profound experience for him and and because of where they recorded it. I mean, this this studio in Iceland has has gotten a real reputation where musicians is a magical place to record. And, yeah, you you'd you'd finish a take of a song and then walk outside, and you see the Aurora boy Alice
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5:Right in front of your face.
Speaker 1:That'll do it. So, yeah, that'll
Speaker 5:so so I'm so happy for O'Thiel that he's that he got this dream project
Speaker 1:comes crying
Speaker 3:like the
Speaker 1:wind through all the broken dreams
Speaker 5:And and so, yeah, it's, I think this music is gonna continue to manifest in amazing ways. Yeah. You know? And,
Speaker 2:So how would who do you fall I mean, what do you do? Like, if you're not if it's not the dead in in stadiums, then, you know, you just interview?
Speaker 5:Well, I still have you know, David and I still have the radio show. Yeah. I mean, the Grateful Dead channel on SiriusXM is thriving after you know, we've been doing our show for 15 years, and it hasn't let up a bit. Wow. The phones are always lit up every week.
Speaker 1:You know, people calling. Listen to the Tales from the Golden Road, and you endure I'm gonna use that word sometimes. The deadheads I mean, they have questions
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah. Detail. They they have some wild theories. They
Speaker 2:have theories.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean and and you guys are just just I mean, you're so great
Speaker 2:that we handle it. I know.
Speaker 5:And and then we'll have, like, a 7 year old call and say, my dad took me my first Ed and Company show, and it was incredible. You know? And and that, you know, that just shows people are taking their grandkids to show.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that
Speaker 5:and that Yeah.
Speaker 1:That was a big thing for the this last Ed and Company tour for sure with the generations.
Speaker 5:Very family oriented. Very Yeah. Oriented.
Speaker 2:And I have to say I have to tell the story again about so Dennis' daughter sent him an Instagram. Was it an Instagram or TikTok? It was a TikTok. Yeah. And it was basically this woman who had an autistic child.
Speaker 5:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And she started dating this man, you know, the stepfather. And, he would play the dead, you know, music in the car with him sometimes, and he finally took him to a concert.
Speaker 1:At the Gorge.
Speaker 2:And it was like the first time he just all of his all of his symptoms, everything, just he just calmed down.
Speaker 1:Did you see that?
Speaker 5:I didn't see that. I didn't see that, but there have been several examples of that. I mean, you know, Mickey has been very involved in music as a, a means of healing and a a means of dealing with neurological disorders. He worked with a great neurologist and author Oliver Sacks
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 5:Who's best known for writing the book that the movie Awakenings was based on. And Oliver Sacks worked with people, yeah, who were in the field of using music as therapy
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Music as treatment for cognitive disorders. Mhmm.
Speaker 5:And, treatment for cognitive disorders.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:And, Oliver Sacks had a patient who suffered a severe brain injury, I think, in 1970
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:And became completely nonresponsive to just about anything. You know? Could not be communicated with, but in working with him, Sax, like, got some of his family history and found out he really loved the Grateful Dead and started playing them Grateful Dead records, and that was what the guy responded to.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 5:Like, he would suddenly he could speak, and he would become animated, but only to Grateful Dead music that happened before 1970.
Speaker 2:So Are you kidding?
Speaker 5:So That's what failed. In the early nineties, I think it was 92, 93, Oliver Sacks brought this patient to Madison Square Garden, and they provided seats for him at the soundboard. And I was about 10 feet behind. I was observing this. And every time the dead would play something from the repertoire 1970 earlier, this guy would just become so animated and, you know, wave his hands.
Speaker 5:And then when they play something newer, he'd become a little more withdrawn and confused. And and Sax said I spoke to doctor Sax, which is an extraordinary experience.
Speaker 1:And,
Speaker 5:occasionally, several times during the show, the patient journalists are like, where's Pig Pen?
Speaker 6:You know?
Speaker 2:And Are you serious?
Speaker 6:Yeah. What's going on?
Speaker 5:And Wow. And and, there's a great there's actually there was a theatrical movie made about about this called The Music Never Stopped, which was okay, but the real the real source that you should read, it was, there was an article that that doctor Sachs wrote about this case for, The New York Review of Books called The Last Hippie. And and then it was collected in a in an anthology of his work called An Anthropologist on Mars. So find that book by Oliver Sacks and read read that chapter. It's it it and to witness it in person was just extraordinary.
Speaker 2:So moving.
Speaker 5:So beautiful. Is moving. Yeah.
Speaker 1:This this person, said that after that dead show, they took a big risk taking this kid to the dead show at the Gorge. Yeah. And they said, screw it. We're gonna do it. And then he responded.
Speaker 1:And not only that, but since then, set he had a lot of acting out, episodes. Mhmm. Since then, they've decreased by 75%. That's incredible.
Speaker 2:Since the show
Speaker 1:at the Gorgeous. Since the show at the Gorgeous. So, yeah, this this stuff is real. Yeah. And it's gonna keep going on.
Speaker 1:I will say at least, you probably gotta go, Gary, but the, at least Bob Weir this Bobby Weir this time says, you know, yeah. We're gonna not do Dead and Company or whatever, but we're gonna continue to play until we drop.
Speaker 5:So Oh, yeah. Well and and, actually, you know, John Mayer said not just a few weeks ago, Dead and Company is still a band. We just don't know when the next show is.
Speaker 2:Anyway Oh.
Speaker 5:So I these guys these guys aren't through with each other. Yeah. I I will quote Bobby again. Hell, we're just getting started.
Speaker 1:Alright. That's it. Let's let's leave it with that. Absolutely. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Gary, it's so
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Cute to
Speaker 1:get to know you the last couple of years.
Speaker 5:And Lovely talking to you folks.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And we wanna keep it keep it going too because we're just bored now. We're part of this too.
Speaker 5:Yeah. No. We we really are. We love it. We're we're stuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We're stuck. And, shout out to Andy Bernstein at headcount because you have the hat on.
Speaker 5:Oh, and and I've been a I went to some of the very first headcount events and have been a huge supporter and participant and all that night. You know, that's another thing I I recommend to people all the time is get involved in democracy
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely Right.
Speaker 5:While there still is one. While still
Speaker 1:there is.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:Well, peace to you, my friend, and thank you for sitting down with us today.
Speaker 5:Oh, such a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Cheers. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 1:Just amazing stuff from Gary. I just so enjoy listening to him. I could probably talk to him all night long and another night and another night. The the guy is, amazing and a wonderful human being. So with that, we were able to find our buddy, Danny Eisenberg, roaming around, and he was very happy to speak with us.
Speaker 1:And, let's hear from Danny Eisenberg. But, Danny Eisenberg, welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're so happy to have you here at, the Great American Music Hall and the Andy Logan, Grateful Guitars, Foundation Benefit. What a fucking time.
Speaker 3:What a what a great time. What a great organization. Andy, what a great human being, you know. They're just,
Speaker 1:So I have to say almost every interview starts with what a great human being, Danny.
Speaker 2:It is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's because it's true.
Speaker 3:Oh, thanks. Yeah. Working on working on it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or Andy too. Yeah. Okay. So, well, so when did you first meet, Andy Logan, or do you remember?
Speaker 3:Probably through got us. I'm trying to remember. Probably through Alex Jordan, some of those Club Fox gigs down there.
Speaker 1:Right. That's probably when I met him.
Speaker 3:I think, you know, maybe I know. I probably met him at Terrapin. Yeah. At Terrapin, I'd you know, when Terrapin Back in the day?
Speaker 2:Back in the day?
Speaker 3:So many great room shows. You know, I think
Speaker 5:he he
Speaker 1:brings Now did you know who who he was? I mean, who's who's Andy Logan. Right?
Speaker 3:I knew he was this guy who had these these awesome guitarists. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So of that
Speaker 3:And he and he wears cool clothes too.
Speaker 1:You know?
Speaker 3:Like, I was like, man, that that is pretty sharp. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. We talked to, Zach Nugent earlier, and he said, yeah. He he reached out to me on an email, and I didn't answer it for about a year until he finally realized, wow. I should talk to this guy.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So good thing he did that. But so you as a, you know, keyboard piano player, how does it fit in for you? Have you has he ever provided you with an instrument? Or,
Speaker 3:you know, I told him I'm not quite I'm cool with my current setup. But, I
Speaker 1:don't know. He'd Yeah. We'd we'd
Speaker 2:People will be using yours later. Right? It's like, ah, Danny's this is Danny's organ.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, I mean, because, tonight's, mostly about the the guitar is being put in the hands of these guys. Right? That's what Andy does. But how does it, feel to be on stage when those, like, the Alligator comes on or that Martin comes on that that Jerry Garcia played?
Speaker 1:Does does that permeate to you, on the keys as well?
Speaker 3:Well, I just think, I mean, I like to think there's mojo and spiritual energy coming from those instruments, and they're I bet there probably is. But these guys are all such great masters or great players, and I just, it's an honor to be sharing the stage and be on stage with these guys. And Yeah. You know, I love listening to them when we're playing. They're just they're all really fun to listen to.
Speaker 1:But there is there some, magic that happens that brings out your your, Billy Preston? Oh,
Speaker 3:you know, I yeah. Billy's probably my my one of my biggest all time heroes. You know? But, you know, just I just try to get out. You know, I I always think a good night of music is when I get out of the way and let the A ratings drive.
Speaker 3:Right? So it's like, so I just try to Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Listen and let go.
Speaker 3:You know? Let the music let the music play the band.
Speaker 1:I was, man,
Speaker 3:you know,
Speaker 2:did you
Speaker 1:look at my notes?
Speaker 2:I mean, this is yeah. That's pretty weird. Yeah. Well, no.
Speaker 1:The let the music plays the music right there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. We do. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Just that's that's the spot I like to be in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. Tell tell us a little bit about, the Marin music scene that you are definitely part of that legacy now without question. You know, we're we're doing a we interview people out of Sweetwater a lot Mhmm. And other places there, but in Marin. But we are finding, that there's just some some camaraderie and it's such a rich history and the passing on of the you know, it's going on for years.
Speaker 1:What what's your, feeling about the Marin County music scene?
Speaker 3:I think it I think it's awesome. Like, there's so many great players and and it's, it's kinda like a co op. And we all mix and match and play with different we all kinda play with each other in different formats. And, and I love, you know, I love the I love, in that scene, the improv scene, the the improvizational music Right. That that is prevalent for a lot of it.
Speaker 2:Right. How long how long have you been in Marin?
Speaker 3:Maybe, like, 7 years.
Speaker 2:7 years?
Speaker 3:I'm born in San Francisco. Lived there, I was 5 and grew up in Berkeley and then lived in Oakland, like, 20 years and Wow.
Speaker 1:Thought I
Speaker 3:better get out of Oakland. Wow, man. It's like it's, yeah. God bless Oakland. I love old Lot of good news.
Speaker 3:I love old Oakland. I I used to be in Oakland. I used to play in a club like an old blues and jazz club when I was, like, 20 years old, but that was, like, old Oakland. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? A little bit different.
Speaker 1:But you've been around the the Marin scene longer than the 7 years that you lived there. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I when I lived in Oakland, I played it, you know, I played it. I played a terrapin. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, you know, I played a terrapin from the beginning. I got luckily thrown into some of those soft opening shows
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:With Phil. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. The soft opening shows and the rambles, they called them the
Speaker 3:rambles early on. Yeah. They I think they yeah. The ones I got, the very first one's soft opening and Oh. And I got and I got I just lucked out to get the call for you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Where are you now? Fairfax?
Speaker 3:I'm in Forest Knowles,
Speaker 1:which is Forest Knowles.
Speaker 3:Right past, Fairfax, like, 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:It's nice out there.
Speaker 3:And, beautiful out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, anytime, Garrett is, playing at Forest Knolls at the paper mill, I usually try and make it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Garrett's He's like the
Speaker 2:new kid on the block. Right? He comes in. He's
Speaker 3:great. Garrett's awesome. And yeah. And, yeah. So we Garrett now we have a band now called the Garrett Deloian Band.
Speaker 3:It's Garrett, myself, Danny Loring, and Kevin White, you know, and So
Speaker 2:that's who we saw.
Speaker 3:And we that's who you guys saw at Terry's, and we have another gig September 14th for all you people out in podcast world. Absolutely. Bring your hundred of your closest friends.
Speaker 2:Right. We told a lot of people about that.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of, like, soul and
Speaker 2:soul jazz. Where I so I took the Spotify playlist and just send it to everybody I know. I'm like, you guys have to go check
Speaker 1:this out. Incredible. There was one night when, you guys were playing at Perry's and the was it the wall of sound was playing down the street?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. That was the last one, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they had the Keystone revisited playing in Sweetwater.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:It's like, what to do? Right.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah. There's a lot going on that night.
Speaker 1:You know, talk about them when we're in the scene. How about them other hips? You've been doing, I saw it
Speaker 3:in there? I've done a little bit with the hips lately. You know, they've they've changed it up. So, you know, I've got a couple things coming up in September, I think, on the calendar. And, I think they were talking about maybe doing some recording.
Speaker 3:So Yeah. Are are you
Speaker 2:doing the Terrapin thing at the end of the
Speaker 3:I'm not scheduled to do that. No. No. But, you
Speaker 2:know, it's awesome. Well, that there's something that'll
Speaker 3:be a
Speaker 2:lot more.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Warms my heart that they're they're doing that. I just I love Terrapin so much. I miss it. But, as, you know, I feel sad, the spirit spirit goes on for that.
Speaker 3:You know? You know? But what a what a great place. That was,
Speaker 1:that
Speaker 3:was like I
Speaker 2:think Dennis lived there. Right? Because you were a in a
Speaker 6:barstool there
Speaker 1:if that's what you Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You
Speaker 2:did. Put your name on it. You're like, every night.
Speaker 3:That was a really great experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It was kind of a clubhouse for the deadheads. Yeah. It was
Speaker 3:it was and it was for us, it was like a musical gym. You know? You go on there and you play with great players and, you know, the only prerecords I think, you know, that I can take, you know, is listen and then listen listen more. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, I like what Garcia said. You know, listen and be open to magic.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do you have any, I mean, like, who's your mentor in terms of, like, who I mean or is it all you? Or is it
Speaker 3:For music or
Speaker 2:Yeah. For music. For music for piano.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Oh, well, you said Billy Preston is probably the top for, you know, Billy Preston. I, you know, I love I mean, there's so many great players.
Speaker 2:I love,
Speaker 3:you know, Billy Preston, you know, I love, you know, a lot of jazz players. Oscar Peterson, I love I love Bebop a lot. You hear a lot of Bebop and Garcia's playing. I love I love that language.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know? It was just so cool seeing you guys play with with you know, when you were playing with Garrett because there's just a whole different Yeah. Right? It's a whole different vibe.
Speaker 5:And
Speaker 1:But do you prefer or do you have a preference between, the organ and the piano?
Speaker 3:It just depends on the music. I love I love them both. Yeah. You know? I love I love both of them.
Speaker 3:It just depends what
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:The music
Speaker 5:causes for.
Speaker 1:It seems like the organ has,
Speaker 7:you know,
Speaker 1:progressed with all the, advances in technology. Right? Whereas the piano is the piano. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, and you can't and it's the piano they're getting really good at the you know, because you don't always get a real piano, which is Right. Best. And the real piano to get it mic correctly is
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Is also a challenge, but you do sometimes and that's awesome on both fronts. But the digital ones like the upstairs tonight is a you know, it'll you can you can express yourself and sound like a piano on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We were listening to my my daughter's at Outside Lands all weekend. Right? Oh, wow. She comes home with a video.
Speaker 2:We're listening to all this music we don't anything about. I'm like, wow. It's like the production is pretty
Speaker 1:Yeah. We're having an argument. Is this, music or is it sound or is it are these musicians? But there it's
Speaker 3:a little
Speaker 1:of both.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I'm not familiar with I looked at the that artist that, you know, and it's like, I don't really No. I've heard it. I know I've heard some of these artists, but I only, like Yeah. Don't tell anybody, but,
Speaker 1:like, 2.
Speaker 2:That's how what was the saying? It was, like, the Foo Fighters and, like
Speaker 5:Foo Fighters and Maggie Rogers. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it and it wasn't Adele on there
Speaker 1:or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, yeah. She was
Speaker 6:on this time.
Speaker 2:I don't know if she was on
Speaker 1:this time.
Speaker 3:Somebody was, like, somebody like that.
Speaker 7:Yeah. It was probably Maggie Rogers. Lana Del Rey.
Speaker 3:Like, she's
Speaker 2:a Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 3:She's really good. You never She
Speaker 2:is good. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, but, like, those, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:It's just Did you ever play at outside lands?
Speaker 3:I did play there 10 years ago. Yeah. With the hips, I played there and, that was really fun.
Speaker 2:Wow. They took over our outside lens.
Speaker 3:And then Paul McCartney headlines. So I got to go listen to Paul McCartney. Same day he headlined on, you know, on a different stage but,
Speaker 2:you know,
Speaker 3:he played, like, 75,000 people. He was a he was amazing. He he, you know, he I had tears in my eyes.
Speaker 2:Oh my god. I bet. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But thing is, like, even though I played there so we got the VIP section or something
Speaker 1:Right. It was
Speaker 3:still you had to look at the screen. It was still so far away.
Speaker 1:I was there. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I it's just kinda funny, like, watching a concert
Speaker 2:where you're looking at a screen.
Speaker 7:You know?
Speaker 2:Might as well be home.
Speaker 3:But but well, then I got they got kinda used to it. Then I was like, well, this I could this is
Speaker 1:and it's it's kinda real. You have to talk yourself into it of being okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I didn't have a choice. Like, it was just that was all I got. You
Speaker 1:know? Yeah. The VIP at the Outside Lands.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. We had I was like, really? Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And, but, yeah, I was at that, and it was super cool. I mean, that's good. If I were you, I would just say I played with Paul McCartney at Outside Lands. That's good.
Speaker 2:Here we go. So were you were you classic? I mean, how were you what did you start playing?
Speaker 3:I, I grew up, you know, playing classical, but I've always learned off records, which is Yeah. You know, all my heroes always said, learn by ear off records. And so that's how I did. That's how I still do it, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, yeah. So I learned most, you know, so I studied classical but then learning other
Speaker 2:What's your favorite genre?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, when I'm most of the time, I listen to and practice jazz but, you know, mostly, but I but I can't really say I'm a super heavy strong jazz player. You know, I love it and that's what I practice and listen to, but I'm I'm kinda like the hippie rock dude who listens to and practices as well as jazz. Right.
Speaker 2:Well, jazz seems
Speaker 3:to be
Speaker 2:the sort of the foundation, so, you know Yeah.
Speaker 4:You're not alone. You're not alone
Speaker 3:at all.
Speaker 1:Maybe maybe the folks we talk to are jazz influence for for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, kind of Jeff Kemeny is a killer jazz player.
Speaker 2:Right. Right.
Speaker 3:You know, those guys, like, I've like, you know, Jason Crosby is awesome and and, and Marco Benevento. Those guys are
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Those guys those those guys all move me a lot.
Speaker 4:I like
Speaker 1:amazing. They're,
Speaker 3:like, heroes of mine. You know?
Speaker 1:That's cool. And how about Scott Goobs?
Speaker 3:Googman is awesome. I love Goobs. And we get we get thrown in. It's fun getting I love playing with him. We I feel like we work well together.
Speaker 3:You know? We so we play often in Keystone revisited. I couldn't make it that night. Keystone
Speaker 1:you were at the
Speaker 3:I was yeah. So, and it was booked before Tony called me for that gig. So but, get that on tape. Okay. So Yeah.
Speaker 3:We gotcha.
Speaker 1:You're covered. Tony Saunders. That that yeah.
Speaker 3:Tony, that was later. Yeah. It was. But, but, yeah, Goob is awesome. He's he's great.
Speaker 3:He's got a killer ear. You know, he just sits down. He just
Speaker 1:know He got he got to play, Brett Midland's, one of his keyboards. Right? Yeah. So have you ever done that?
Speaker 3:Well, I think at Terrapin you know, I've done some great room shows, you know, back at Terrapin, and I think that Hammond on stage was one of Brent's.
Speaker 1:Was it?
Speaker 3:I'm pretty
Speaker 1:sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's because Rob Rob Baraco told us tonight Yeah. That he, he got offered, one of, the keyboards that the dad were using.
Speaker 1:I forgot if
Speaker 3:it was
Speaker 2:I thought it was Brent. No. It was Brent.
Speaker 1:Is it Brent's? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, I'd like to
Speaker 1:You are coming. You're part of this legacy that's going on up there on the stage tonight, and you're part of the Marin Music legacy, and that's fucking awesome.
Speaker 3:So Thanks, man.
Speaker 2:Well, I
Speaker 3:Right ahead. You know, I love this music. I love the Grateful Dead. It's like, you know, my first show was 77 Winter. Like, I was
Speaker 2:gonna ask you that. I was gonna ask you one
Speaker 3:more time. Time I first one time I went, you know, I listened to the records, and I and I was totally straight. You know? I go, and this is really this is really cool. This is really good.
Speaker 3:And I'd listen to the records at at my buddy's house, like, we were 15, and we listened to Warf Rat and Yeah. And and we and and we started getting stoned back then, but but we would, like I don't know if we were well, drinking started probably at some point, but
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:I remember drinking milk and having graham crackers and listening to Wharf Rat.
Speaker 2:Okay. Wait a minute. That is a that's a saxophone.
Speaker 3:Time I hear that, there's a chord in Wharf Rat. It's called a a it's a it's a sus 2 chord. They take the 3rd of the chord, and you you make it the 2. Yeah. You know, it's a it's a a sus 2.
Speaker 3:And that chord, every time I hear a sus 2 chord, it reminds me of Graham cracker. So I call that the Graham cracker chord.
Speaker 1:Graham cracker chord. Yeah. And now every time I hear,
Speaker 5:fright, I'm gonna think of war front. Shit.
Speaker 1:That's, like,
Speaker 2:the first time I ever heard all these stories, but that's a first.
Speaker 3:And then and then the second dead show was that same week, 77 Winterland, like, 2 days later, and I smoked weed. And Whole different. And this whole world opened up, and I was, like, seeing dinosaurs and time traveling. I go, there's a lot of something's going on here, man. And it was just weed.
Speaker 3:It wasn't like acid. You know?
Speaker 2:That's are you I'm like, are you sure? You're in 77.
Speaker 3:And I we just gotta give you know, it's great having these guitars, you know. And I just, you know, I mean, I just I just got he just had a birthday. I just have so much love and respect for Jerry Garcia, like so many of us do, but, like, what not like, he's so talented. What a soulful dude. What a soulful dude.
Speaker 3:You know, seems to me without hardly any ego. I don't get ego from that guy and just, like, so so much heart and and soul and and I think he's a, like, what a killer. Not just, of course, amazing guitar, but what a great singer that dude is. Like, underrated singer. Like, he's a great singer.
Speaker 3:That guy's a great singer.
Speaker 2:Just feel it.
Speaker 3:A great singer.
Speaker 2:Just a few just
Speaker 6:I love that.
Speaker 2:Feeling it all the time. I know.
Speaker 1:I was we were talking to Zach earlier, and he was, you know, we're telling him, hey. You're a great singer. He goes, you know, I'm supposed to be a guitar player. I said, sorry, dude. You're a
Speaker 3:great singer too. Yeah. Zach's awesome. And,
Speaker 1:that was true of Jerry.
Speaker 3:That was
Speaker 1:the Yeah. Yeah. The sweet melodic tone. I I
Speaker 3:used to, man, I I remember Winterland when I went there.
Speaker 2:Meet him?
Speaker 3:I never met Jerry. No. Nope. I never met Jerry.
Speaker 2:But I think we all feel like we did at some point. Right? Just, again, just to
Speaker 3:the music thing. I feel like I mean, I I'll don't tell don't tell anybody on the podcast. I'll I'll be at home. I'll talk to him out loud. You know?
Speaker 3:So, Jerry, help me figure this music thing out or whatever. And and, but I love his language. I love like, you hear his playing. You know what I I just love there's I feel like it doesn't get talked enough. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You hear just there's so much bebop language in Garcia's playing. Like, Charlie Parker kind of, you know, his his, you know, his song was bebop, and I just love that language, and I love the way he uses it. Yeah. And it just
Speaker 2:We've been listening to the, well, the first Golden Roses, we were listening to the Dennis McNally book on audio. Like, we was like and, you know, just go he was talking all about just the music that he got into and how he was so intense about learning all the different genres, you know, blues. Yeah. And he was just a maniac when it came to that.
Speaker 5:And so
Speaker 3:I can't. Yeah. I got, I think I should probably get Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna
Speaker 3:I'm starting the second set up.
Speaker 5:You might wanna go
Speaker 3:out? Yeah. You're out. Okay. Alright.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:That was a hilarious story. Let's face it. I mean, the whole the whole thing with, graham crackers and milk. Right. That is
Speaker 2:a great
Speaker 1:he's so funny. And, you know, he's just so funny about, don't tell anybody.
Speaker 3:I love the way
Speaker 1:he does that. So we thought we would end this episode with our previous interview that we did, as I mentioned earlier with, Johnny Mojo. So let's hear Johnny Mojo after he played alligator at Sweetwater with Keystone revisited. Talk to us. Hey, Nick.
Speaker 7:Chick chick. Yeah. Alright. Alright.
Speaker 3:Oh, man.
Speaker 7:It's the same mic.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Look at that. Should we turn that one down, I think.
Speaker 3:Put it right.
Speaker 2:Over here to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There we go. That's off. Okay. Johnny Molo. Oh.
Speaker 7:Mo Mojo. Mojo. Yes.
Speaker 1:Give me some mojo.
Speaker 7:The funny thing though
Speaker 3:is is Johnny Mojo.
Speaker 1:He's he
Speaker 7:said that when he was younger, he used to go by Johnny Mojo.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, you are Johnny Mojo, and that's it. I know him too and which is why I said his name. I've probably been with He's
Speaker 7:my favorite drummer. So Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's that's your favorite drummer too, actually.
Speaker 2:It is. Well, we had a long chat during the election because he looks like Carville.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 2:He looks like the You
Speaker 5:know the name Carville? I don't
Speaker 2:know. Yeah. Whatever.
Speaker 4:That was not gonna
Speaker 3:get That was a while back
Speaker 1:when it was with the Chris Robinson band. I remember that.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right? He plays with them a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so here's what was happening, Johnny.
Speaker 1:Before you came on tonight, we sat down with, Andy Logan for a long time, and we actually visited his guitar collection 2 days ago because we've been stalking him, obviously.
Speaker 7:Very stalking.
Speaker 1:And, of all his collection, there's no doubt, I think, that alligator is probably the more most prominent, of his acquisitions. And we've been talking about what it's in you know, what it's like to go on stage, playing that instrument. Does it do something to you? And this is the at least the second time you've done it. Is that right?
Speaker 7:This is the second time I've done it play.
Speaker 1:Alright. So let's go with the first time. When was that and how did it feel?
Speaker 7:That must have been 3 or 4 months ago with Keystone revisited right here at Sweetwater.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 7:I was looking forward to it so much. I played a gig in Berkeley the night before. My amp took a tumble off the back of my Subaru.
Speaker 2:Oh, no.
Speaker 7:It bashed in the standby switch rendering it useless. For that particular day, I fixed it on the Monday but Wow. So, anyway, I had to use my backup amp and, and it it did okay, but I was really happy to be able to bring in my fat Jimmy tonight.
Speaker 5:I was
Speaker 1:gonna say you're probably a little distracted that night.
Speaker 7:Right? Yeah. Totally. Totally. It's like it it was okay into a certain volume, and then it didn't quite cut it because alligator is a beast.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is it? Yeah.
Speaker 7:That is a it's a strong guitar. It's pushing a pushing a lot.
Speaker 1:Are you are you getting some, some vibe from it when you're up there playing? Do you do you
Speaker 7:feel that? No doubt. I mean, it almost gives me the chills.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 3:Right? Yeah.
Speaker 7:And it and there's tones. You, like, you hit that in one note and you're like,
Speaker 1:oh. Explain the tones to to us. You know, when you hit when you talk about certain tones with these appear like, period specific tones they talk about.
Speaker 7:Totally. So, I mean, they used, they used the alligator. Jerry used it for Europe 72. So that's, like, pretty monumental. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd say so. And a
Speaker 7:lot of people's favorite album, and it was just very signature Yeah. Tones. And I don't know. I guess what you'd say is, like, a Stratocaster is kind of a spanky instrument, a guitar, you know. It's got that you can get that, I always think of guitar as, like, I think, like, Les Paul or something like that.
Speaker 7:It's like a broadsword, you know. It's like strong and big, but but like Stratocasters are like these fencing
Speaker 5:Right. But
Speaker 7:they're swift and nimble Right. And they're almost kind of very Swiss army knife kind of guitars that can cover a lot.
Speaker 2:That's a really interesting, like, I love that.
Speaker 7:But you
Speaker 4:can't get that bright,
Speaker 7:you know, real kind of
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 7:You know, bright spanky dome out of a
Speaker 1:Nimble too or no?
Speaker 7:A little bit nimble. Yeah. Fancy on
Speaker 1:your feet.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So tell us about, how you met Andy and got involved, with him and or how you guys met each other.
Speaker 7:I think I met Andy through Terrapin Crossroads. Okay.
Speaker 4:And, you
Speaker 7:know, I was lucky enough to be one of the guys that was in the rotation, playing playing in the bar
Speaker 2:We saw you played many times,
Speaker 3:I think.
Speaker 1:Yes, we did.
Speaker 7:And he he brought out, I think he brought out some, like, reissue kinda, you know, guitars that was like this kinda like this guitar. He brought one of the guitars that was made for Jerry, I think, but never got into
Speaker 1:That's right. He did he it was made for him by, was it Cripe? And, he passed away before he could actually buy it, which he told us tonight. He said it was kinda weirdly lucky because he never would have owned it, you know,
Speaker 7:at this point. So And then one day, one day, we're at KPFA in Berkeley, and I my band, Achilles Wheel, we were there doing doing something a dead to the world or maybe it was a fundraiser or something they were doing. And and so we were in one room playing. We did, like, the acoustic band thing. And and, in between that, in the other room, I think, was, the guitar maker that made alligator, I believe.
Speaker 4:And and
Speaker 7:he had the acoustic guitar. And I remember going in there while they were interviewing and, like, Andy's like, can you hand me that? And I got to pick up alligator and hand it over. And that was, like, my first experience with alligator. I just remember it being so light.
Speaker 7:Yeah. You know, and I was filming this and then and with my camera and
Speaker 5:Oh, you're good. And he
Speaker 7:asked me to hand it over and, you know, and I end up, like, covering the camera as I'm handing over. I kinda missed the moment. But Oh my god. But just being able to hold it was was like
Speaker 1:Yes. But light in weight, but heavy in history. No
Speaker 2:doubt. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right? You say? Yeah. You know? You you mentioned terrapin if we were great Terrapin, regulars, for that wonderful 11, 12 years of paper
Speaker 7:it was.
Speaker 1:I mean, miss it a lot, but happy it was there. Right? But we talk a lot about the the Marin music scene. Now what, how involved were you at Terrapin? What's your other Marin music experiences?
Speaker 1:Like Achilles' wheel where you based out
Speaker 2:of love.
Speaker 7:Yeah. I'm lucky to to, have kind of been able to to break my way into the to the run music scene, because I was living in Placerville Right. In the foothills. Uh-huh. And so but I was traveling out to the bay and Sonoma quite a bit to play about half and half.
Speaker 7:And, and then yeah. Was Achilles Will played the great room a few times
Speaker 1:and then
Speaker 7:and then, Craig MacArthur was like, hey. You wanna do some of these here? Beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You
Speaker 7:know, which got me tied in, which is actually got me, you know, like, playing playing now, like, Danny Loring, drummer Yes. Doing a Wednesday thing at paper mill.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes. And we've been to some some of
Speaker 7:those paper mills.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We like this one.
Speaker 6:That's where
Speaker 7:I met him, and so that got me in the rotation with that and some of just the other guys and
Speaker 1:You know, it's not and it's in in a weird way and not even a mean way, but it's not easy to break into the Maroon music scene. You know, we interviewed, I got a fellow the other night who said who really told me that. He just said, I gotta tell you, it was tough getting in, you know. And I I really never thought of that, but I guess just by natural instincts, that's kinda the way it is.
Speaker 7:And there's such great musicians that are just
Speaker 2:There's so many
Speaker 7:they're just here like, oh, on a random night, you got Barry Celeste here just at this little bar. He's, you know, it's like Wait. Yeah. These are just the regular These
Speaker 2:are everywhere.
Speaker 3:Harry's ever
Speaker 1:we seem to But
Speaker 3:how do
Speaker 2:you guys think he's cloned or something.
Speaker 1:I mean, I seem to run into him everywhere, you know. But, of course, we live around here too. He lives in Fairfax.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:We see him at the restaurants and, of course, all these play he is everywhere.
Speaker 7:No doubt. No. We went to the movies and saw him there and, you know, Willie Nelson's thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1:But that was Eric McCann. I just remembered his name. He was the, the bass player, and he breaks in however it is into the Marin scene, just meaning people invited him to come and play, and all of a sudden, Bonnie Raitt discovers him. Yeah. Santana discovers him.
Speaker 1:He's playing with Clarence Clemons on a regular basis. But it was really interesting. He said 30 years of playing, and he just retired as a registered nurse. So he with all those famous players, you know, so not easy make it on your own,
Speaker 7:is it? No doubt. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, so how long have you been, you know, existing in the music world?
Speaker 7:Well, I've been, I mean, you know, it was kind of the same where I was going to do taking a little bit of school, working a little bit of job, and then eventually, like, the job was kinda dried up and it was working for a drummer at the time.
Speaker 1:Right. Right. Ran. Yeah.
Speaker 7:AutoCAD work. No judgment. No judgment. You know?
Speaker 2:We've all been there.
Speaker 7:Make the money where you can.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Then music was picking up, and so then it kinda gave me the push to just be doing it full time.
Speaker 3:And Yeah.
Speaker 7:In Placerville, it's like, you know, I lived there for 20 years getting out of Modesto and was able to kind of build up, you know, what I was doing, which I don't think I ever would have been able to do in Modesto. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, you know,
Speaker 7:there's a lot of wineries out there and then and then I've got there's like, Coloma, the river in the summer. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You
Speaker 7:know, so a lot of gigs there and then up to Nevada City and Grass Valley and all that. So it's nice little, you know Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a
Speaker 3:great area.
Speaker 7:Yeah. You know, and then driving out, you know, when you live in the foothills, you don't mind driving a couple hours out to the bay. Yeah. That's right. Different when it's coming back this way.
Speaker 7:The other way.
Speaker 1:That's right. So, where are you living now?
Speaker 7:Now I'm in San Rafael.
Speaker 1:Okay. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:See that? See how that happens.
Speaker 7:Yeah. And I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well That is the heart of it.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you something. Marin Music Scene, Sweetwater, all of this, you're part of the legacy, brother. And you played the alligator tonight, the 2nd time. It's a
Speaker 2:big deal.
Speaker 7:And,
Speaker 1:we just wanna make sure that's known and and have it recorded here tonight. Yeah. So thank you so much for sitting down after the show, by the way.
Speaker 2:I know you must be exhausted. And so, what do you have coming up or what tell us a little bit about.
Speaker 7:Hitting the well, going back to Placerville tomorrow. Achilles' Wheels playing at the Green Room which Social Club, which is on Main Street in Placerville and some some friends of mine opened it up and it's existed for a few years now. And so if you're ever in Placerville, Hill, go support that. Probably
Speaker 1:should because the name of our podcast is Tales from the Green Room. So
Speaker 3:we better just
Speaker 2:maybe we better talk
Speaker 3:to them. Right? No doubt. No doubt. We'll talk after this.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 7:But, yeah, we're heading to Reno on Saturday and then, it just keeps on coming. I got we got I got a really exciting gig. My buddy, Dennis Mill from the Hot Mountain Dips, kinda over in a shaker, but we're doing a show at the brick and mortar on 10th, and that's gonna be with Tom Constanten.
Speaker 2:Very nice. Nice.
Speaker 7:And so that will be exciting. It's it's,
Speaker 1:you're you're rolling. Yeah. We're doing
Speaker 7:a post Jerry Jerry day show on the 5th out there. So Hot Mountain Dips, fun little San Francisco band that
Speaker 1:I've Yeah.
Speaker 7:That I've been enjoying playing with and
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, anybody that, if you miss any of those shows and you can catch Johnny anywhere, do so with or without that alligator. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 7:Thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah.
Speaker 7:Thanks for spreading the gospel.
Speaker 1:You got it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thanks
Speaker 1:for sitting down with us.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Pleasure.
Speaker 2:Cheers. Cheers. Right on. Bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to Tales from the Green Room, a presentation of Mount Tam Media. You can hear more spontaneous stories from the secluded confines of green rooms on our next episode. To experience all Mount Tam Media productions, including the Woman Are Smarter podcast, log on to mount tammedia.com. We'll see you at the next show.
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